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It's been a long week for Fox, so basically, she doesn't want to cook and she wants to spend time with her cadre. These two things add together into 'Fox has invited Mei to go to Maddy's with her.' And Fox is, for Fox, kinda dressed up! Her hair is clean and braided into a pair of braids that fall over her shoulders, she's wearing a clean black t-shirt that reads '100% Kosher Beef' across the front with a trans pride Star of David, and clean skinny jeans along with her winter boots and pea coat and backpack.
She holds the door open for Mei, offering, "I want tiramisu waffles, I think!"
Mei steps through and responds with a disgruntled, "uuuuuuugh. It smells like bacon in here right now, and that smells so good. Can't someone magic us up some kosher pigs, so that we can have bacon again? I can't actually decide if I want sweet or savory, though. I'm in the mood for both." She slides her leather jacket off and then slings it over one shoulder, holding it there with her right hand as she peers at Fox over her sunglasses. "Where do you want to sit? Near the entrance, or away from it?"
"I know. Do you think if we asked Maddy, she'd start carrying lamb bacon? I would love lamb bacon," sighs Fox, fluttering her eyes wistfully. "I think I want both." She pads her way over toward one of the booths, shucking off her coat and her backpack and flopping down into the booth. "Though if Aaron was here he would tell me I shouldn't have meat and dairy together because being a fox doesn't make me exempt." Grumpy face ensues.
Tanya follows the two in, Fox's apprentice trailing behind just a bit. She's still prone to stopping to randomly gawk at things, her mage sight not yet grown tedious. She also lingered a bit on purpose to give Mei and Fox time to chat without the baby pestering them. But once she reaches the other two again inside the restaurant, Mei's words catch her interest. "Could you make a pig kosher? I guess...could you just give it different feet?"
"I never found it all that hard to avoid eating meat and dairy together," Mei admits with a shrug. "I grew up not really having dairy in my diet, for the most part. That's just not really a thing in chinese cuisine, you know? So avoiding it now isn't all that difficult, since I never got started making it a regular part of my diet." She joins Fox in making their way to the boot, hangs her jacket on the back of the bench, and slides in. "Actually, I guess I could probably do that, come to think of it. I feel like that's kind of missing the point, though? Or cheating, at least."
"... I could," admits Fox. "I could make a pig that had non-cloven feet and chewed its cud." She curls up on her side of the booth, pulling one of her knees up to her chest. "It would be weird, but I could definitely do it. So could Mei, yep." She flags down one of the servers. "Oh, I dunno. I don't think it's very much different to having a water boiler with a 24 hour timer, or a Shabbat food warmer. It's just... weirder."
Tanya nods as she sits next to Fox in the booth and peeks at the menu, still not familiar with its offerings. "It depends on your view on rules themselves. Which matters more, the letter or the spirit? What state does the rule enforce? And these are totally personal rules, so they can only be personal answers. You're only affecting yourself." There's a little smile. "On the other hand, we're all in violation of several religious prohibitions merely by using magic, by most orthodox interpretations..."
"I don't have a water boiler with a 24 hour time or a Shabbat food warmer either," Mei points out as she takes her sunglasses off and rests them on top of her head. "Hmm, just had a thought. Some people would say that using the elevator buttons to get to the penthouse isn't allowed, but it's definitely work to go up all those stairs instead." She glances over at Tanya. "I'm pretty sure that if we modify animals, it's not only affecting ourselves."
"I'm just saying, there's a long tradition of figuring out exactly where the line is so we can work our lives around that." She leans on the edge of the table and, once the server comes over, orders a giant plate of tiramisu waffles and a big carafe of coffee, the latter for the table. "And please bring a lot of creamers," she adds. "I know," she agrees with Mei. "And that's why the sages can fight me personally over using the elevator."
She turns her attention back toward Tanya, then. "I mean, Judaism and magic is sort of... a big shrug. The 'not suffering a witch to live' thing is a long mistranslation, and anyway, I'm not a witch. But. These are good questions. You're getting the hang of it." A wink for her apprentice.
Tanya smiles at the compliment. "Well, that's the funny part. Judaism, and where it intersects with your respective paths, is a rather large Mystery. The views of the Catholic Church I was brought up in, on my particular path...are not quite so vague," she says with a tighter smile. "Between that and the gender, I might be turning into a stereotype, come to think of it."
Mei orders a Greek omelette with the fruit, says she'll just have coffee from the carafe, and leaves it at that. "I'm an Obrimos, sooooo," Mei shrugs. "If I was going to think that my faith had any particular opinion on one path or another, even then I'd be pretty sure my own is alright. But rather than thinking that I'm superior for that in some way, which I'm not... I think that it really doesn't matter, at the end of the day. What we do with who we are is the more important part."
"Do you think there's no Mystery in Catholicism, at all, or is there just... nothing there for you?" Fox asks. The coffee shows up, and Fox starts pouring it for people. "How do you think you're a stereotype?" Fox doesn't often give Tanya answers, or responses directly, and usually just asks a bunch more questions. "I tend to agree, which isn't surprising, perhaps." That, to Mei.
Tanya shakes her head to Fox. "Oh, there's much Mystery in the Church. They love it. Most sacraments contain a mystery or three. What I mean is that consorting with literal demons leaves things a bit more cut and dry. I am a Witch, a Warlock. I've gone against my own baptismal vows to reject Satan and all his wicked ways." It sounds like Tanya's diving into deep wounds, but she looks up with a somewhat wry smirk, an is-that-all expression. "And yet, that made me rethink everything I was told. I already broke my vows the first time I kissed a boy. The first time I doubted that an all-powerful and all-loving God would want the world to be the way it is. The first time I disobeyed anyone, really, when you get down to it. And I don't regret any of those things."
"Christianity sounds so exhausting," Mei says with a shake of her head. "I'm glad I never got dragged into that. I guess for people who find that it gives their life meaning and that they're fulfilled by it? Fine. But it makes me tired just thinking about all of that stuff."
"Agreed," sighs Fox, opening up like seven creamers and pouring them into her coffee cup so that it's basically coffee-flavored half-and-half, but that seems to make her happy. "Not that there's not enough weird shit going on in Judaism, or that people don't use our faith as a cudgel against marginalized people. That sure happens plenty, even if we'd prefer it didn't."
She sips her coffee, and lets her eyes half-lapse. "So, pronouns. Are you using she primarily now, or exclusively?"
That gets a little glimmer from Tanya. "Um. Primarily, I would say. I still don't...feel like a woman. I don't feel like a man anymore either, and possibly never did. But it's...complicated. Nevertheless, it's mere gut feeling. 'They' didn't sound right. So it's 'she/her' now." She nods to herself. "It's..." There's a hesitation as she looks up to Mei and Fox, taking a moment to sip her own black coffee. "Well, like we were just saying. There are people, far too many people, who just take and use things however they see fit. But there are those with...purer intent, I guess. Are either of you familiar with... the Sleeping Hermaphroditus?"
"She/her it is then," Mei agrees, because she's happy to use whatever option is that Tanya asks for. Even if it changes at some point. "And yeah, Fox, you're right. There are plenty of people in Judaism who are problems, and we shouldn't pretend that isn't the case. But for me, personally, I think that on the whole a lot of Christianity sounds pretty exhausting, so that's probably a sign it wasn't for me." She look sat Tanya again. "I'm not."
"You don't have to feel like a woman, I'm not pressuring you to feel any which way. I just want to make sure that I'm using the right words for you. I thought the Universe had decided for me that I was supposed to be a woman -- even though I'd transitioned and was on HRT and the whole nine, I still wasn't sure -- and it took me a while to know that I got to decide that, and that I am something else instead." She smiles sidelong at Mei, nodding. "I've always been a Jew, and I find what I hear of Christianity exhausting, so, you know. I am grateful that this is how the universe arranged things for me."
"The Borghese Hermaphroditus? The one in the Louvre? Yeah, I'm familiar."
Tanya looks pleased, nodding to Fox. "Yes, that one. It's a ancient marble scuplture of Hermaphroditus, the merging of Hermes and Aphrodite. From whom we get the ill-applied name. But that's...that's exactly it. We see so much that's meant to mock and revile, that portrays anything outside the binary as lesser. Flawed. Wrong. I was lucky enough to see this once, on a school trip, this piece, and..."
The young Mage pauses to look down at the black ripples of her coffee. "She's...they're...just laying there. Comfortable. Powerful. Larger than life, flawelessly posed and proportioned. On display, and unashamed. The occult, even what I knew about it back then, has plenty of gender-exotic stuff, and I know a lot of it is just fetishized or worse. But... this wasn't that. This was the ancient world's portrayal of something neither merely male or female. And not merely both. Something greater."
"And that's what I want to be," Tanya intones, looking back up. "Greater. Beyond the limits of expectations and impositions and the insecurities of others."(edited)
Mei leans against the window at the end of the booth and watches Tanya as she's talking, nodding occasionally. "Makes sense," she says. "I've been finding that the more time that goes by, the less concerned I get about my gender. Which I suppose is a comfort that comes more easily now that it matches my self-conception. I've been finding that there are other personal battles to take on, of course. There's always something that needs fighting for, right?"
Turning back to Fox she says, "I wasn't raised Christian either. My dad is a Buddhist, and my mom's an atheist. They both just don't really get the conversion to Judaism, but my dad has come around more than my mom has."
The Thyrsus just listens while Tanya talks, letting her go on. "I don't know if that makes us something greater than cis men or women, but I get the point you're driving at." Fox shifts her weight a little and reaches for her plate when the server starts bringing out said food. "Mmm. My gender is mutable, and it feels a lot like putting on clothing or different forms to me. I know it's important to some people, but it's much less important to me than it used to be."
"That's fair," she agrees with Mei. "I don't know much about Buddhism, I admit."
Tanya shakes her head. "It doesn't make us anything, it's just... a Symbol. An idea. Potential. If I want to be something greater, I have to create that greatness myself," she declares triumphantly. "When I figure out how exactly to do that, I will let you know, of course. Easier said than done." She sips her coffee before glancing to Mei. "I studied this, you know, right before my awakening. I think what makes Christianity especially powerful, and thus especially pernicious, is first its emphasis on conversion. Other faiths convert, but it's fundamental to Christianity. It spread across the world by lowering the barrier to entry and removing the requirements of mosaic law. That, combined with the Catholic Church's centralization of power...well, I could go on, of course."
"I was reading an interesting thing about that recently, actually," Mei replies to Tanya as she's taking her own plate, and then pouring herself some coffee. "That in many cases the emphasis on trying to get other people to convert is not entirely about actually getting people to do so, though it's a useful side effect when that happens. That the fact that it annoys people and gets negative reactions a lot of the time actually results in the person trying to do that work getting more strongly cemented in their perspectives and makes them feel closer to their community. That making people go out and fail at convincing people to convert actually strengthens their own belief. I don't know how much truth there is to it, I'm not an expert there, but it seems tactically sound, if true."
She looks down at the food. "This looks so good, as usual." She starts breaking a bite off the omelette with her fork as she replies to Fox. "I didn't really get raised with it, aside from what I picked up along the way from my father. My knowledge isn't very deep, though."
"Okay," agrees Fox with Tanya's assessment of who she is and her greatness and how she has to create it. "Let me know when you figure it out."
She goes quiet as the other two talk about the matter of conversion and why it's important and what it means. "That kind of sounds like how people with exclusionary mindsets keep people in the community in the queer community too," Fox offers, and then chows down on her waffles, licking a little bit of whipped cream off of her lips when some gets smeared at the corner of her mouth. "So good."
Fox to Mei, texting via brains:
- So I was thinking -- would you like to, uh, go out for dinner without the kid sometime?
Mei also via brain:
- You say 'the kid' as if I didn't Awaken only slightly before her. Are you asking me on a date? Because we get food together fairly often, and you don't usually ask like this.
Fox:
- Well, she's still a kid, and she's way younger than you are in a lot of other ways, too.
- And yes.
Mei:
- I honestly didn't think you considered me a possible member of the dating pool. Which isn't a 'no', just a paradigm shift.
Fox
- Well, I wasn't sure that I did, but mostly because I didn't know how you felt about it. But I had a conversation with someone last night that made me realize that I do, actually, and that the reason I haven't been asking is because I've been presuming your answer.
Mei
- Would you believe me if I say that I haven't actually dated much? I'd be interested in going out and seeing how it works out for us. I think we're both mature enough for it to not ruin our current relationship if it doesn't feel right to turn it into something else.
Fox
- I would believe you, because you said that before. :p And I don't think it would, or I wouldn't ask.
Mei
- Well, I'm interested.
Fox
- Excellent. :3
Mei
- What did you have in mind?
Fox
- Something nicer than Maddy's but not so dressy that I feel weird going there?
Mei
- Going on a date where people you know are likely to show up seems weird, too. So I think Maddy's is out. I'll figure out a place and let you know. In fact, I have an idea, I just have to check with someone who owes me a favor first.
Fox
- Oh, Maddy's itself is definitely out, for exactly this reason. But -- okay! Let me know. :3
Mei
- How about Saturday?
Fox
- Yes! What time?
Mei
- Six. But it's a surprise, so I'm not telling you where in advance. We'll just go together.
Fox
- I Like surprises! They're new experiences by default.
"Ingroup reinforcement," Tanya says in agreement. "I wonder if...hmm. Do the Seers try to recruit? Or do they just...Awaken like that?" She sips at her coffee, letting the steam rise up into her face as she thinks. "From some of the things I've read, all the problems we've been talking about might be due to them anyway. Behind the scenes, pulling strings, encouraging the growth of fundamentalist doctrine and oppressive states..."
"They recruit," Mei answers with a grimace. "To the same degree you could say that the Pentacle recruits, anyway. They think that they're right, and they'll try to convince other people that they are. I don't think it's quite the same thing as the way that some religions deal with recruiting, though. A bit more like the way the Republican party does it. Some people are born into it, or that's what they're exposed to first. Other people come to it over time."
There's a brief flare of Fox's Nimbus -- all green and spring-like -- but there's no immediate Thing that happens that explains why exactly her Nimbus flared. She just keeps on eating her food like nothing happened. "What Mei said," agrees Fox. "You don't just -- get born to it, or there wouldn't be any kids of Seers who aren't Seers, and that definitely happens."
"Well, I'm glad to hear that," Tanya declares. "At least their poor kids have an out. Sorry. I shouldn't bring up the fash while we're eating. Not even the magic super fash." She takes another sip of coffee, content with the drink, having eaten earlier. There's a brief awkward silence as she tries to come up with a new topic, glancing at her phone and scrolling through some things. "Oh, I was wrong, Hermaphroditus was the child of Hermes and Aphrodite..."(edited)
Mei's phone buzzes in her pocket, but she doesn't take it out to check it, she just activates some magic too. There's a nimbus, of course, but most people aren't going to see the flare of it, since people probably aren't using Mage Sight in Maddy's. "I mean born to it in the same way that a lot of people get born to their political party. Their parents are that, so they become that because the ideas are what they got exposed to, and what they end up believing. Not always true, but it happens often enough that the people who go another way are probably the exception, rather than the rule. Some apples do fall far from the tree, though." Like a member of her cadre!
"Anyway," she says. "I picked up a new case. Fortunately, this one shouldn't be too big a headache. Or a heartache."
"Oh, I missed that you said -- yes, that's who the parents of Hermaphroditus are." Fox smiles aside at Tanya, and takes up another bite of her waffles. "Oh, man. These are so good," she sighs.
"Mmm," agrees Fox regarding the apple falling far from the tree. "What's the new case?"
"I got confused, I said it was Hermes and Aphrodite merged themselves. Like, double-God." She looks to Mei expectantly about the new case, nodding at her words but flicking a quick glance to Fox after. "Can I try a bite of those? I wasn't hungry but they do look amazing."
"Someone had a backpack stolen out of their car that had a photo album in it," Mei explains between bites. "They have some camera footage that shows the thief's face, and they're hoping I can track them down and see if I can get at least the photo album back." She shrugs her shoulders. "It's a long shot, and I told them so, so they're prepared for me failing. But at least it's not a matter of life or death like some of my other cases were."
"Mmhmm!" Fox cuts off a chunk of the tiramisu waffles with her fork, gets the sloppy waffle all sorted on said fork, and then carefully passes over the fork to her apprentice. "They're so good. They're my favorite. I like the pumpkin pie ones too, but these are my favorite."
She falls quiet, listening. "That sounds like actually a huge relief compared to how stressful some of your other cases, for sure. And as long as the client is prepared that you might not have the results they want... "
Tanya takes up the fork, pushes the waffles into her mouth, and rolls her eyes back in her head a moment. "Those ARE good, wow," she murmurs with them still in her mouth, then busies herself with finishing the morsel. The fork is passed back in case Fox still needs it. "That sounds like it'd be easy to solve with magic, right?" she asks Mei.
"There are people who say they're ready for me to fail, but aren't. There are people who say that who are," Mei answers Fox with a regretful smile. "But in this case, I'm pretty sure she's the latter. This would probably be a lot easier if I was a Time and/or Space mage, but I'm not. This isn't really in my magical skillset, but it is in my mundane one. It'll either be pretty straight forward, or a long shot."
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